This is an unedited tranny with all the misspellings and typos.  It has only been formatted
for better readability.

Topic:  Which show best reflects the ideals of Star Trek?

Stardate 10210.18
************************************************************************************************************************

Host Beth says:
::walks up to the podium and clears her throat:: Okay folks...it's time to begin.  ::grins::

Cory says:
LOL

Cory says:
::looks over at Beth::

mcoburn says:
::gets out his popcorn and sits back to watch the show::

Host Beth says:
The topic tonight is: Which show best reflects the ideals of Star Trek?

Gilles says:
::steals popcorn::

Host Beth says:
Who wants to start off?

mcoburn says:
::blink::

mcoburn says:
::sniffles pitifully::

Trish2 says:
::waves hand::

Host Beth says:
Trish2?

Kooky says:
::steals it from Gilles and gives it back::

SM-Trish says:
::me next::

mcoburn says:
::smiles::

Gilles says:
::raises hand and asks to put his name in list::

Trish2 says:
Brett and I just argued about this today... He said that basically since TOS started it all we have to use TOS as a holy grail as it were to judge the other series by. OK... I can understand that... but I feel TOS did not exactly always stand by its  own ideals... Actually I feel that TNG represented the ideals of the 24th century.

Cory says:
::will talk when he has something to say::

Host Beth says:
Trish1? :)

SM-Trish says:
I think they all do... with each series we got better

Host Beth says:
Gilles?

SM-Trish says:
Each one reflected different aspects

Gilles says:
I have to say Enterprise.....   it seems pretty close to where we are TODAY....   and showing where we are going..... TNG is more where we would DREAM we could be !!

SM-Trish says:
::nods in agreement::

Kooky says:
::agrees with Gilles::

Host Beth says:
What about Deep Space Nine?  Does anyone think that was more realistic in the way people act?

Gilles says:
::likes to think we could meet Vulcans (or others) in my lifetime::

SM-Trish says:
I don't think so Beth

mcoburn says:
I agree with the DS9 comment

Cory says:
I don't think DS9 is really at all.

Kooky says:
DS9 was a whole different scenario ... Station based rather than ship based ...

SM-Trish says:
it was more character oriented in my opinion

mcoburn says:
Definitly

Gilles says:
Nope..... DS9  was for RATINGS !!!!  Action...Action...Action...Action...Action...Action...Action...  :-)

Trish2 says:
I loved DS9 because of its intrigue.

Cory says:
I agree with Trish1

mcoburn says:
Not early in the series

Cory says:
I really didn't enjoy DS9...it was the only series I really didn't like

mcoburn says:
It was the first time we got to watch a static population interact with Starfleet officers

Trish2 says:
DS9 was a darker, grittier kind of show... but it was my favorite.

SM-Trish says:
DS 9 lost my attention... went too far off the mark

KevNash says:
DS9 got into the more militaristic side of the series. It lost track of the exploration and seeking out new life thing. It dealt with the Cardassian and Bajoran characters more.

SM-Trish says:
yup

Host Beth says:
Well let's take it from this aspect:  What ARE the ideals of Star Trek?

mcoburn says:
Though it does do a good job of showing us what the station life is like

Trish2 says:
I don't think DS9 reflected the ideals of star trek as much as it reflected life in that time

Cory says:
In my opinion I think they just kept growing from TOS...They became more advanced in every series

SM-Trish says:
right on that one Trish2

Trish2 says:
hehehe... that is why I liked it so much

SM-Trish says:
The ideals of ST to me are learning to see other's differences and accepting them

Gilles says:
::nods::

SM-Trish says:
what was it spock said, infinite something

Gilles says:
Infinite Diversity in infinite combinations

Gilles says:
IDIC

SM-Trish says:
yessssssssssssssssssssssssss

KevNash says:
I liked it as well. They had good actors portraying the characters. But tos is still following the mantra created by Gene Roddenberry to this day even in novelization.

Gilles says:
::has to get an IDIC pin::

Trish2 says:
um... infinate diversity in infinate combinations.... darn someone else said it first

Host Beth says:
::looks around the room:: If any of you others want to comment please...feel free to join in :)  I know we have a lot of cadets here...so don't be shy. :)

SM-Trish says:
I think ST represents what we would like to see the world become...

Kooky says:
Actually in DS9 there was exploration ... everytime they went through the Wormhole they went into unchartered territory ... with First Contact situations ...

Gilles says:
::grins:: The universe even Trish :-)

SM-Trish says:
true, thanks

KevNash says:
:: Remembers where IDIC was first coined.:: "By Any Other Name."

Host Beth says:
Let me ask this: Can we even fairly compare TOS and TNG?  Society had changed a great deal in between.

Cory says:
What series does everyone believe was the best ST?

SM-Trish says:
no way...

SM-Trish says:
different times

Host Beth says:
Cory: That's a topic for another night :)

Cory says:
yeah they have changed a lot...they seem totally different

SM-Trish says:
but SF was evolving

Cory says:
I see..lol

Gilles says:
::nods:: In 30 years  lots happening

Kooky says:
::agrees with Trish1::

SM-Trish says:
and I think we refined what TOS was trying to do

KevNash says:
NO. Were talking from the late 60's to the mid eighties. The comparrison is unfair at best. Lot of technological changes in that era.

Trish2 says:
Picard was definatetly a man of his time and not ours....

Cory says:
true

SM-Trish says:
I think we have those kinds of men, they just aren't in the forefront Trish

Host Beth says:
So would it be fair to say that they both represented the ideals as they were thought of at the time?

SM-Trish says:
"good" truly good men have no way to change the situation as it stands now

SM-Trish says:
definitely!

KevNash says:
:: Agrees with that statement.::

Gilles says:
::nods::   Higher ideals even

Trish2 says:
I would say that those types of people are extremely rare and... stuck to such high ideals.... they aren't actually living in a real world. Not that that is a bad thing exactly.... for we need people like that to help us as a species grow.

SM-Trish says:
but even in Kirk's and Picard's time, there are still evil men

SM-Trish says:
men who want to take advantage of anyone and anything

Trish2 says:
there will always be those who are behind the times...

Host Beth says:
So does anyone think that WE can ever achieve those ideals?

SM-Trish says:
from people at your work place to a nation... you will find them wherever you go

mcoburn says:
I'd like to think so

Gilles says:
Of course !!!!

Gilles says:
We have to if we are to survive !!  And we WILL do so !

Trish2 says:
you idealist, Gilles :)

Gilles says:
::nods::

Gilles says:
Either that or die !!!   ::grins::

SM-Trish says:
we can strive to attain them, but realistically, not at this point in OUR evolution :(

Host Beth says:
Do you think something catastrophic has to happen before we wake up and evolve?  Like in Star Trek there was WWIII...

KevNash says:
I believe that we can. In our time we have seen the end of nuclear prolifiration, the wish to treat all peoples equal, now we have to get rid of terrorism and it's effects and then maybe we stand a shot at achieving those ideals.

Trish2 says:
It may take us centuries to get there.... but the whole world's paradigm must change in order to achive such things

SM-Trish says:
but I do think one way to help reach them would be to get rid of all money... everyone share

Gilles says:
Possibiliy Beth.....   possibiliy

Host Beth says:
You know...I notice no one has mentioned poor Voyager. :)

mcoburn says:
*cricket chirp*

SM-Trish says:
Voyager was again a character oriented series...

Trish2 says:
Ew... ick go back to the barter system? I'd rather give you several hundered dollars than give you a cow, Trish :)

Gilles says:
LOL

Cory says:
Voyager was my favorite out of them all for some reason

SM-Trish says:
I liked it, but TOS and TNG and now Enterprise are the best of the lot.

Trish2 says:
::really loathed voyager::

Kooky says:
::nods:: Enterprise has only just started here ... but I love what I've seen so far :)

Host Beth says:
Let me ask this:  Why can't character oriented series reflect the ideals of Star Trek?

KevNash says:
Voyager seemed more out of the loop. It dealt with the Delta Quadrant which we couldn't hope to visit unless somethig happened to send us there like Voyager.

Cory says:
I think a character oriented sereis does reflect the ideals of ST because it shows how and what they had to go through emotionally and how their lives were

KevNash says:
:: Wishes some of the novels could be made into movies.::

Trish2 says:
I just hated voyager because of its lack of continuity... I mean if it is a character oriented series... why not make the characters actually act like what happened last week... happened... but I digress.

SM-Trish says:
Because if I wanted to watch a soap opera, I would tape them during the day... ::runs::

Cory says:
That is true to some extent Trish2..but they did stick to what happened before some of the time

SM-Trish says:
I agree Trish@

SM-Trish says:
2 even <G>

Trish2 says:
I like Trish@

Gilles says:
LOL

Host Beth says:
:)   Trish1 mentioned that some of the ideals were tolerence and equality...infinite diversity in infinite combinations...any other ideals?

SM-Trish says:
I want to see something I can aspire to, change in my life...

Trish2 says:
read: All I need to know I learned from Star Trek.... a really good and funny book

SM-Trish says:
hehehe

Host Beth says:
Do you think that the characters on TNG were realistic?  Or too good to be true?

Trish2 says:
Picard was too good to be true... in my opinion

SM-Trish says:
I think they were realistic to a point... each to me represented different parts of my personality

SM-Trish says:
or should I say, a person

Cory says:
It depends on the character in TNG

Host Beth says:
Okay....Wesley :) What about him?

Cory says:
He was...he was kind of to good to be true

mcoburn says:
He was the sort of idea child you'd want to have

Gilles says:
Eploring a new dimensional plane... Hmmmmmmmmm... We'll see in Nemesis for Wesley   LOL

mcoburn says:
so yeah under the too good to be true kinda thing

Gilles says:
<exploring>

SM-Trish says:
I think he represented the side of us that wanted to belong, like any teenager, but struggling to find out who we are

mcoburn says:
though more plausible than Picard

Host Beth says:
How about Riker?

Kooky says:
::found Wesley a pain in the ... ::

mcoburn says:
Riker played trombone

mcoburn says:
he's awesome ;)

Trish2 says:
Child prodigy saves experienced and knowledgable enterprise crew every other week... too good to be true

Kooky says:
I liked Riker

KevNash says:
I think he showed what would happen if we ever really free our minds.

Trish2 says:
I loved Riker... look who I married :)

mcoburn says:
he's pretty realistic

SM-Trish says:
hehehe, he is the devil-may-care part which I would love to have as part of my personae

Host Beth says:
Heh...

Host Beth says:
How about Troi?

mcoburn says:
besides the telepathic thing

Trish2 says:
I love Troi and.... she is a bit on the idealistic side...

mcoburn says:
I think she's pretty realistic as well

Host Beth says:
yeah...as a personality..

Cory says:
I personally liked Troi..

SM-Trish says:
since all my friends come to me for counseling, and I am very psychic... what can I say? <G>

mcoburn says:
especially her conflicts with her mother :)

KevNash says:
Troi reminded me of an emotional Spock. But I liked her character.

SM-Trish says:
hehehe, let

SM-Trish says:
's forget that part!  too close to home Sandy!

Trish2 says:
hehe... high five... girl friend,Trish

SM-Trish says:
^5

Kooky says:
huh?

SM-Trish says:
oops! that was mcoburn

KevNash says:
Likes Lawaxana. Typical overbearing mother. LOL

mcoburn says:
huh?

SM-Trish says:
Am I the only one that looked at the characters from a personal point of view?

SM-Trish says:
mother troubles!

mcoburn says:
right :)

Kooky says:
::doesn't have a mother ... ::

SM-Trish says:
I saw aspects of them that are me, and aspects I would have liked to be me...
Trish2 says:
well yeah.... mom troubles for me too... that stubborn... wants you to do everything her way... I definately relate to Deanna
Host Beth says:
Were the characters of TNG more realistic than the ones on TOS?  Or vice versa...
Kooky says:
I loved Data ... especially his attempts to become Human ...
mcoburn says:
:: mmm warm peanut butter chocolate chip cookies::
Host Beth says:
Kooky: Pinnochio :)
mcoburn says:
ohh yeah
mcoburn says:
Data was my favorite
Kooky says:
yup :)
KevNash says:
I relate to the Kirk character. I'm definately not the womanizer, but I try to portray the rules don't apply to all situations.
Gilles  (Lifeforms.wav)
SM-Trish says:
I think they portrayed their times Beth
Trish2 says:
I think each group of characters were appropriate for the time they represent
mcoburn says:
i concurr
SM-Trish says:
^5 Trish!
Trish2 says:
^5
Host Beth says:
::throws this one up in the air just to see how it lands:: Which one portrayed the role of a leader better...Kirk or Picard?
SM-Trish says:
::whispers to Trish::  We are giving them stereo!
Gilles says:
PICARD !!!!!!!
Cory says:
Picard I believe
mcoburn says:
Picard
Kooky says:
That's hard to answer ... each had their own way of doing things ...
Gilles says:
::tugs on uniform::
mcoburn says:
hehehe
SM-Trish says:
say answer applies as before
Trish2 says:
picard had a better comanding presense... where Kirk... had charisma
KevNash says:
Picard was more on track. Although I didn't like his aversion to children.
Trish2 says:
::agrees with KevNash on that one::
Host Beth says:
What about Archer?
Cory says:
Scott is right he did have some ad points
Trish2 says:
but I had an aversion to kids... until I got pregnant... LOL
mcoburn says:
I like archer too
Cory says:
I do not like Archer at all..I just never have...
Gilles says:
::likes Archer::   He is learning to become better
mcoburn says:
but does he seem a little like Picards precursor a little too much?
SM-Trish says:
I like him, but it is too early to tell yet
Trish2 says:
I like Archer... he seems much more like us
Kooky says:
::agrees with Trish2::
Gilles says:
Archer is putting is pre-conceptions behind him... SLOWLY... but he is doing it
SM-Trish says:
isn't that normal tho Gilles?
Gilles says:
Yup !
Gilles says:
That's what I like... he is "normal"
SM-Trish says:
we all have our prejudices...
Gilles says:
Human even
Kooky says:
And Archer is sometimes put in a difficult position ... he has no Prime Directive or anything like that to work with ...
Dawn (tjashworth@actdnet-1166.53.0.211.ipls.grid.net) has joined the conversation.
SM-Trish says:
exactly Sandy
kate (www.jaymag@actdnet-64997.wp.shawcable.net) has joined the conversation.
Host Beth says:
So would you say Archer is more realistic than Kirk or Picard?
SM-Trish says:
::waves to DAwn::
Kooky says:
Definitely
Trish2 says:
in relating to us the audience... yes
Gilles says:
Realistic compared to US... yes....
Cory says:
He is more realistic...but I don't like his way of doing things
SM-Trish says:
not really Beth... he just seems that way as we can relate to him better
KevNash says:
I really liked Sisko. He is more of a dual role. That appeals to me.
Kooky says:
I didn't like that "Emissary" thing, though
Trish2 says:
I loved Sisko... but then I loved DS9
Host Beth says:
Explain a bit more please KevNash.. about the dual role?
mcoburn says:
What about Janeway?  Our first female Captain...
mcoburn says:
Do you think she protrayed the typical female leader properly?
Cory says:
Janeway was a good Captain but very emotional at times...like when she would isolate herself from the crew
Trish2 says:
I think the male writers got her all wrong... but it is a hard line to walk....
Kooky says:
I thought she was a little stand-offish ...
KevNash says:
I believe that he brought the attempts with Kirk and Picard together. He was a loving father, and a commanding officer. He really had the best of both worlds.
Trish2 says:
Sisko was the best :)
Dawn (tjashworth@actdnet-1166.53.0.211.ipls.grid.net) has left the conversation.
Host Beth says:
but do you think that Janeway represented how female leaders and their problems in our time?
Trish2 says:
no... but maybe I did not watch enough of the series to really judge.
Cory says:
That is an interesting thought Beth..and actually it might
Host Beth says:
So Sisko seems to be a very popular Captain here...would you say that he is more realistic than Kirk or Picard?
Trish2 says:
yes... :)
mcoburn says:
I think the father role helps him be more realistic to us.
Cory says:
yes
Kooky says:
I think that maybe he was more in touch than Kirk or Picard ...
Trish2 says:
yeah definately, Kooky
SM-Trish says:
I did not like his command style, but I did like the way he interacted with Jake
Host Beth says:
So in other words it sounds like they are progressively getting closer to reality with these Captains... :)
KevNash says:
:: agrees:: But the Emmisary kinda still throws me off.
Kooky says:
Agreed Scott
Trish2 says:
I think it was cool how they tied him to bajor... but I am rather escoteric :)
Gilles says:
::nods:: Too much Mumbo Jumbo on that one
mcoburn says:
hehehe
KevNash says:
:: Never understood the Prophets cryptisism.::
SM-Trish says:
hehehe, but they are good for arcs Gilles!
Trish2 says:
heheheeh
Host Beth says:
lol Trish1
SM-Trish says:
ask my crew!!!!
Kooky says:
LOL
Cory says:
They are very Good Gilles!!
Gilles says:
::chuckles:: Welll ya...Trish
Gilles says:
But it's STILL Mumbo jumbo !!!
KevNash says:
Ack! You had to gothere heh Trish1!
Trish2 says:
::loves mumbo jumbo::
Host Beth says:
What about the other characters...do you think they are becooming closer to reality with each show?
Maryanne (mpgreska@host.acalltoduty.com) has joined the conversation.
Kooky says:
(((((((((((((((((((((((( Mare!!!! )))))))))))))))))))))))
SM-Trish says:
yes I think they are with Enterprise Beth
Maryanne says:
{{{{{{{{{{{{Gang}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}
SM-Trish says:
{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Mare}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}
Maryanne says:
:)
Gilles says:
As the actors get more familiar with their characters they get better themselves... then they get better interacting with each other
SM-Trish says:
but again, only because they are closer in time to us
Trish2 says:
Yeah, Enterprise is much closer to our time and so the characters are generally easier to relate to. The majority of them are human as well
SM-Trish says:
^5 again Trish
Trish2 says:
^5
Kooky says:
I like the idea of seeing First Contact with races that are well known in the other series ...
Tunik says:
I think I relate quite well with Phlox.
Tunik says:
:)
Host Beth says:
How about Tripp from Enterprise and Bones from TOS...do you think they may have come full circle on that one?
SM-Trish says:
yes Sandy, and how they are tying in how SF and the Federation are evolving to what we know now.
Trish2 says:
I like Phlox... and he is rather relatable... you don't have to see through the cultural filter like you do with T'Pol
Dawn (tjashworth@actdnet-25204.52.244.210.ipls.grid.net) has joined the conversation.
KevNash says:
I would like to see a movie or series that starts with the formation of Starfleet and Dr. Zefram Cochrane.
Kooky says:
I Love Trip ...
Trish2 says:
Trip is great :)
Host Beth says:
And that's also another topic coming up in the futre KevNash :)
Cory says:
Trip is funny
SM-Trish says:
why are you comparing and engineer and doctor Beth?  You lost me on this one.
SM-Trish says:
Did you mean Tripp and Scotty?
Host Beth says:
Personalities actually Trish :)  How realistic they are...
Trish2 says:
the homeboy country doctor/Engineerin thing?
Trish2 says:
LOL that did not quite come out right.....
Dawn says:
::hopes she will figure out what is going on::
SM-Trish says:
I think you described it perfectly <G>
Trish2 says:
I mean in that they are really basic and simple down to earth people
kate (www.jaymag@actdnet-64997.wp.shawcable.net) has left the conversation.
Host Beth says:
Yes...exactly.  Was there any other character on the other shows that portrayed that type of character?
Maryanne says:
I think these characters show how human we are.
KevNash says:
I liked the down to earth portrayal of McCoy. He wasn't one that was much for technology. I haven't seen much of Enterprise to judge Trip.
mcoburn says:
Unfourtunatly I need to go.  It was nice chatting with you people, and hopefully I'll be able to serve with some of you soon!  Thanks for a great initiation into ACTD.  See you around.
SM-Trish says:
bye!!!
Maryanne says:
bye
Host Beth says:
Bye and thank you for coming :)
Kooky says:
Later
mcoburn says:
::waves::
mcoburn (Trayer@actdnet-18646.student.udel.edu) has left the conversation.
Riker (niki@actdnet-30906.144.39.162.ip.alltel.net) has left the conversation.
Trish2 whispers to Beth:
when do you need Brett to help out with training?
Host Beth says:
So do you guys think that trip and McCoy are so likable because of their failings?  Or their strengths? Or both?
Host Beth whispers to Trish2:
7:30 please...
Maryanne says:
both
Kooky says:
Both definitely
Gilles says:
::nods:: Both
SM-Trish says:
both
Dawn says:
a little of both, for the simple reason, they take failure and turn them nto triumphs
Dawn says:
<into>
Kooky says:
With both what you see is what you get ...
KevNash says:
I believe that that side of them is a strength. Here they are on a giant piece of technology and they still have their aversions to it.
Host Beth says:
Which character on TNG portrayed the same thing?
SM-Trish says:
Data
Kooky says:
Luaxana <SP> ... ::remembers her aversion to Transporters::
Trish2 says:
All the characters were very comfortable with technology... I'd say
Trish2 says:
ok... main TNG characters
Juventas (llun@64.114.48.actdnet-42530) has left the conversation.
Dawn says:
Data, for sure.
KevNash says:
:: Agrees with Trish 2.::
Maryanne says:
I see Geordi as this type of person.
Host Beth says:
Five minutes left folks :)
Host Beth says:
How about DS9?
Kooky says:
That's hard to answer ... they all had their failings ... and strengths ...
Kooky says:
O'Brien
SM-Trish says:
Kira
Trish2 says:
Geordi was perhaps the most down to earth... yeah DS9 O'Brian... down to earth and practical
Kooky says:
::agrees::
Maryanne says:
for DS9 I see the Captain being a bit of both.
Trish2 says:
Kira was not really an everyman's kind of character... not like O'Brian
Carissa (airc@actdnet-241.vs.shawcable.net) has left the conversation.
KevNash says:
I believe it would be Kira. As she endured the Cardassian occupation and didn't really didn't want Starfleet on the Station.
SM-Trish says:
but she could be strong and vulnerable at the same time...
Trish2 says:
yeah... relatable to be sure... but not blue collar enough ;)
Host Beth says:
And of courselast but not least  how about the poor lost child...Voyager?
Kooky says:
The Doctor ... definitely :)
Trish2 says:
::did not watch enough to comment::
Cory says:
Doctor..hehe
KevNash says:
Chakotay definately.
Kooky says:
I also think Chakotay ...
Dawn says:
Chakotay
Maryanne says:
Tom
Cory says:
Tom was down to Earth and so was CHakotay...
Cory says:
A lot of the chars were
Kooky says:
I think the Doctor was a lot like Data ... they strived to become something more than their programming ...
Host Beth says:
::smiles and looks at her watch:: Well folks...I think we covered a lot of ground here tonight....before we go does anyone have a topic they would like to put forth for next week?
Tunik is now known as CMO_Tunik.
Gilles says:
Hmmm.....    New Series... What would YOU want as a new series ?
CMO_Tunik says:
Laters...
Host Beth says:
Nice one :)
CMO_Tunik (jimxye@148.61.221.actdnet-33645) has left the conversation.
Kooky says:
Now that could be interesting ...
KevNash says:
I'd like to see a comparrison of the command stiles and how the captains relate with their crew.
Host Beth says:
Anything realating to  ACTD?
KevNash says:
styles even.
SM-Trish says:
I like Gilles idea
Gilles says:
Hmmmm.....   ::has no idea yet about ACTD::
Trish2 says:
perhaps that is too close to home :)
SM-Trish says:
thanks Beth!  gotta go!  I really enjoyed tonight!
Host Beth says:
I did too....everyone did great!
SM-Trish says:
::waves to her twin::
SM-Trish says:
{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Friends}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}
Trish2 says:
::waves back::
SM-Trish (SM-Trish@host.acalltoduty.com) has left the conversation.
Gilles says:
:;waves::
Maryanne says:
Oh Beth, Kenji is looking forward to training with you tonight :)
Host Beth says:
Okay...I think I'll go with Gilles idea for next week....What would YOU want a s a new series?
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Gilles says:
::grins::
Trish2 says:
night all
Cory says:
Well I am going to get going
Cory says:
Night all
Gilles says:
::is so proud::
Host Beth says:
Good...Mare....they are a good bunch :)
KevNash says:
night Cory
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Host Beth says:
Thank you all for participating :)
Maryanne says:
kewl!
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Maryanne says:
later gators
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Kooky says:
Later all!
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Gilles says:
I'm off as well... Night ALL !!!!!!!!!!!
Host Beth says:
Look for an announcement same time and night...
Host Beth says:
Night everyone ;)
Gilles says:
LOL Or should I see Night Beth !!!  LOL
Gilles says:
<see = say>
Host Beth says:
LOL....thanks Gilles :)
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